Sunday, August 23, 2009

Science Proves Religion

I'm having a problem with YouTube. Sometimes when I try to post a comment under a video, it doesn't save, and I'm forced to discard it. So I'm watching an interview with Penn Jillette and there's this guy calls himself BaneOfFreeSpeech. I don't know what the conversation was before this guy cuz YouTube's idea of a message board for videos is not intended for actual text communication. You're just supposed to comment on the video, not go into serious discussions about religion or science, but this BaneOfFreeSpeech guys says.

"this wont matter when science proves religion is a joke."

This is what I wanted to say in response.

What are you talking about!?

Galileo proved the Earth is not the center of the universe hundreds of years ago. The Pope's response was to excommunicate him, and then make him kiss his ring. Astronomy has proven there's no heaven. There's no throne in the clouds where God's hanging out. Yet ppl still believe!

Science HAS proven religion is a joke. A LACK of evidence is NOT evidence. The jury is not still out on evolution versus creationism. Yet religion is more powerful now than ever before.

I have been looking at atheism recently like it's a bottomless pit. I was born and raised a Christian. I don't know any other way. The past several years I've been standing on a precipice of Deism, looking back at what I see now as a very badly done magic trick and I'm looking forward at a big black nothing. Dark Matter is less imposing and scary than believing in nothing.

Belief in something that's not there isn't an answer. Belief in nothing being there is not an answer. Waiting for a third answer that actually is the answer? That's not working either. And if it came along, I'd be sceptical of it anyway.

There are a lot of things which forced me to put into question all my beliefs. If I've stopped being a Christian, it's not because I want to stop being a Christian.

I understand how Tarzan felt when Jane explained to him "there's a reason why they're all hairier than you are, dear. You're not one of them."

But Tarzan had Jane. And the Big City. And a deal for multiple movies and television shows and he got to be on lunchboxes. He was also fictional, which took the edge off the knowledge that everything he had known up to that point was fictional.

Atheists offer Ex-believers NOTHING but just a bottomless pit of this is what you want this is what you get. You honestly believe science WILL prove religion is a joke? It already did. The problem is, there's no punchline. It's a very bad joke.


la isla d'lisa said...

See, to me science has proved nothing of the sort; we are such infants in the world of science that it's like comparing apples to hammers. Besides, taking issue with organized religion has nothing to do with faith in God, but rather with someone else's idea of the 'right' way to worship ... and there's hardly an organized religion out there that hasn't taken a serious hit on standards and practices (for lack of a better phrase). An open mind is half the battle; who says science won't eventually 'prove' everything?

Carrie-Lee said...

Very well said, Zach. If people can't take what evidence has already shown to be proof, what's to say the next "proof" will sway them one way or the other? I'm skeptical simply because I believe that humans have difficulty NOT knowing the "what" or the "why" so they create a reality as a means to cope. That our species is SO egotistical that they feel the need to live forever and this is how they think it will be done. I'm perfectly happy NOT knowing what happens in the end. At some point, I suppose, we'll all know.

ZachsMind said...

la isla d'lisa you are currently where I had been for several years, seeing a distinction between ORGANIZED RELIGION and a more generalized yet individual faith in a monotheistic god. If and when science proves there's a god of some sort, then it would make sense to start worshiping him/her/it. However, it only makes sense to worship a god that's actually there to worship. If there's a god out there, s/he/it does not resemble anything remotely like what we measly humans have imagined him/her/it to look like. We are anthropomorphizing The Unknown, just like we anthropomorphize animals. I kinda hope there's not a god out there, cuz s/he/it would be rather offended by our short-sighted impression of him/her/it.

Carrie-Lee what creeps me out is that some people see no evidence and from that absence of evidence they concoct proof. It's like saying just because we've never seen a unicorn doesn't mean they're not there. Maybe they're just invisible, and they move around a lot, silently, making it impossible to detect them. The more I look at this, the more I realize that humanity on the whole is largely insane. I'd rather not wait until after I'm dead to prove whether or not that is in fact the case.

Donald said...

I agree with La isla, science hasn't disproven squat. You say that it prove there is no heaven but the Bible doesn't say where to find heaven, ignorant people assume its just floating above the Earth and God is sitting in a rocking chair looking down. Usually people that know nothing about religion are the ones that are always claiming they know enough to debunk it.

ZachsMind said...

Donald, it's convenient for proselytizers to say it's impossible to find heaven until after one is dead. This removes the chance they'll be discovered as charlatans. You speak of ignorance, but it's ignorant to believe blindly without proof. As Danny Elfman once said, "there's something inside your head."

I chose for around forty years to believe in religion, and say science has to prove the nonexistence of God. You may still continue to do so, Donald. However, the burden of proof has always been on religion, and it's not in the interests of any religion's leaders to disprove themselves.

I would rather believe in what can be proven, than in what cannot. When the God I was speaking to for four decades decides to prove to me He's there, I'll continue my relationship with Him. Until then, I'm rather tired of just talking to myself and pretending a god is listening.

You can do what you want, Donald. I'm not trying to shake your tree. I'm shaking mine.

Donald said...

I believe it's God that implies such a thing, people only echo his word. Which is pointless to even argue with you because you don't believe in God. Some people would rather put trust in science, that is being proven wrong everyday and still discovering things we could never imagined...yet you think because science can't/hasn't found proof of one thing that it can't possibly exist. Like I said before science has not proven there is no heaven just because they send a little space ship up that cant even travel 1/3 of the length of the galaxy doesn't mean anything. I'm not trying to tell you what to believe im just showing you that your side of the story is only one side of the story.

"When the God I was speaking to for four decades decides to prove to me He's there, I'll continue my relationship with Him."

This tells me you never believed, or studied Christianity if you ever did you would see how ridiculous this very statement sounds and you would have already known what is expected of in God, something you are clearly demonstrating you do not have.

I am not mad or angry with you but I will pray for you and I hope you find your way.

ZachsMind said...

I would rather you didn't pray for me, thank you for the kind thoughts. How dare you come to my blog and insult me because I don't believe as you, then say you'll pray for me. How offensive! You need to work on your methodology, or are you just another troll lurking about the Web for kicks?

How dare you read a few paragraphs, then deem yourself enough of an authority on my entire life to decide whether or not I ever believed. Remind me to visit your doorstep and shit on your porch.

"if you ever did you would see how ridiculous this very statement sounds"

No. What's ridiculous is I didn't make that statement decades ago, but what's doubly ridiculous, and rather sad, is that you still won't.

Please continue wallowing in your own fantasy that an omniscient being singles you out as worthy of its time. Just don't do it in front of me. I find how you do it distasteful.

Donald said...

How dare you live your 40 some years of life and deem yourself enough of an authority on thousands of years of religion.

Also anger (as you clearly displayed in your last post)is another way of saying you ran out of intelligent stuff to say and no actual rebuttal.

I'll still pray for you no matter how angry you get with me and how much you loose your composure.

ZachsMind said...

I'd rather you pray for yourself, Donald. You need it far more than me. Go preach to a choir. Your bone soup is filling no bellies here.

Donald said...

I'm not here to fill bellies. I just find it so....weird that you are preaching your disbelief saying you aren't trying to sway anyone elses belief yet you have managed to insult humanity-

"humanity on the whole is largely insane"

and me - "what's doubly ridiculous, and rather sad, is that you still won't"

for not believing as you do. So you mock religion for not being able to prove it exists and for getting more supporters yet you can't prove it doesn't exist and are calling us ignorant for supporting it. You are a hypocrite and instead of responding to the actual things I called you out on you call me a troll, ignore them and say my methods are distasteful to distract from your own.

Donald said...

I don't really care to argue with you as it was not my intention to do so. I was hoping you would actually be able to back up some stuff you said. Your belief is your own and as much as I would like you to find your way you have to do it on your own. Sorry for anything offensive you might have taken the wrong way but just as strongly as you believe in what you are saying I believe just as strong if not stronger in my words. Have a good night.

ZachsMind said...

OK dude now you're just creeping me out. First off I'm not the one preaching anything. Blogging and preaching are SOOOOO not the same thing.

"So you mock religion for not being able to prove it exists and for getting more supporters yet you can't prove it doesn't exist and are calling us ignorant for supporting it."

I already told you, the burden of proof is on you. That's my response, and the only response required. Not my fault you don't like it.

At this point, you're either a troll playing devil's advocate to get your own rocks off, or you're a zealot who's creepy and weird and I'd rather not be bothered further with you either way.

Goodbye, Donald.

Donald said...

"Blogging and preaching are SOOOOO not the same thing."

Yet you accuse me of preaching for responding to your blogging?

Preaching- To advocate, especially to urge acceptance of or compliance with.

Yeah you are preaching. Funny how every time I make an educated response and try to be a bigger man, you call me a troll and ignore what I call you out on. If you want to blog then be prepared to have your ideas and opinions challenged otherwise don't post it publicly. I haven't attacked you I have only challenged your ideas and you have to defend them. You just keep throwing accusations at me and making hypocritical statements to deflect. Call me what you wish but you haven't responded to anything I have called you out on you have only taken offensive where none was intended.

ZachsMind said...

"I agree with La isla, science hasn't disproven squat."

I should have ended this argument at the start of your first response. You said I know nothing about religion despite being a Christian for forty years.

I gave examples in my original post where science HAS disproven far more than squat.

"science hasn't disproven squat"

You have called me out on nothing. You simply refuse to believe facts.

So there's nothing for me to argue here. Buh-bye, Donald.

This argument ends here.

Donald said...

"So there's nothing for me to argue here."

You are right, you have proven that you have no argument with every new post.

"I gave examples in my original post where science HAS disproven far more than squat."

Not regarding religion you haven't, you haven't posted one single thing that science has disproven about religion. You claim that Science has proven there is no heaven yet you later admit that Christianity tells you you have to die to get to heaven. It appears you know very little about what you are actually talking about. Even when I tried to meet you half way humoring you saying that Earth's space ships can't travel 1/3 of the universe you ignored that too. So lets say Heaven is actually literally in space has science disproven it's existence if we can't even explore all of the known galaxy?

ZachsMind said...

"Not regarding religion you haven't, you haven't posted one single thing that science has disproven about religion."

The burden of proof is not mine. That's your trap, and I'm not falling for it anymore. If I bothered disproving, you'd just counter with more circular logic. The very act of me attempting to disprove a god caters to your belief there's something to prove.

You have to prove there's a god. I don't have to prove there's not one. It's what science HAS proven that knocks religions out of the ring.

I am THIS close to deleting all of your BS in here to make a point. This is my blog. This is not your church. You have a right to free speech, but not here. Go pester someone who'll play into your game.

Donald said...

Like I already said Science has NOT proven anything. If you decide to delete my posts you will only be admitting that you have no answers for the responses to your blog post. If you chose to post about such a controversial topic on a public blog then be prepared to have your opinions questions, or at least post some proof of what you claim, because you haven't as of yet.

ZachsMind said...

I already cited examples that you dismissed out of hand with no convincing reasons as to why. I do not need to cite more examples, though there are plenty, because I refuse to get into this endless game. You'd just dismiss them anyway.

Science doesn't have to prove there is not a god. I don't have to prove there is not a god. Nobody has to prove something doesn't exist.

You can't prove there is a god. Until there is proof of a god, all you have is your faith. May it serve you well.